Topic: Improvements in GS4  (Read 21063 times)

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Offline Merc

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« on: December 01, 2011, 12:18:31 AM »
What do you all think GS3 was lacking, and what do you think they could do to improve in GS4? Let the discussion begin.

Note: This is not a topic where you talk about stuff you want in GS4 and stuff you wanted in GS3. This is a topic to talk about what would improve on it and what was missing.

Offline IsaacIvan

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« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2011, 01:48:34 AM »
Well, and this will be prevalent throughout this conversation, I can tell, more backstory would definitely be appreciated, plotholes filled, et cetera, but what I really want, more than anything else, is perhaps a welcome upgrade system. Like being able to upgrade your weapons with certain items found by defeating monsters. We had a mastery system in the newest game, why not an upgrade system too?
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Offline Merc

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« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2011, 03:22:28 AM »
I think an upgrade system would be nice, but wouldn't it make more sense to have those items affect the characters? In the game, you get new weapons by the dozen and it's a waste of upgrades to upgrade a weapon when you're going to get a new weapon that will outclass the other one?

I also think they could have changed the battle system. For a game that is more than half battling, the battle system is really repetitive. One of the reason's the FF series stays interesting is because the battle system changes so often, and is alway unique. I think they need to add a little more strategy into the battle system so that it stays a challenge, instead of having everything until the final boss be really easy.

Offline IsaacIvan

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« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2011, 03:55:41 AM »
I don't think I quite catch what you mean by 'Have the items affect the characters'. Could you please elaborate?

A different battle system would be nice, because they just seem to be recycling the same battle system since the first. There's nothing wrong with it, it's just got really old.
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Offline aprilmarie

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« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2011, 09:57:28 PM »
I didn't like the amount of playable characters in GS3. After the eclipse it seriously gets out of hand and especially with like ZERO necessity or information on Himi. I think they only added her because they needed to fill a Venus spot after Eoleo joined. And in cutscenes and stuff, EACH of them just HAD to say something. It just irritated me. I mean, in TLA the two groups joining was cool, but I don't know, in DD it just really seemed unnecessary to me. Maybe it's just me, but still. They put way too much time in figuring out the last 4 peoples' powers and stuff when the essential powers like the third eye thing, and one that Eoleo has to make heat rise up (forget what its called) could have just been given to Tyrell and Matthew (although the third eye thing doesnt really suit Matthew... maybe Karis because her dad (Ivan) could read minds.. makes sense.)

Am I alone here?

Offline IsaacIvan

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« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2011, 09:18:47 PM »
I don't doubt for one moment that Camelot didn't incorporate the last four all that well, but you have to remember that Camelot hadn't made a Golden Sun game in a very long while, they can't continue with the same graphics for a newer game, because then no one would by it, and every Golden Sun game contains massive amounts of foreshadowing, plot development, and dialogue. They had to get back into their roots by doing a game, Dark Dawn, before they could make something along the lines of TLA again. No doubt, they tried very hard, but you have to see this from Camelot's PoV as well. There's absolutely no way this was easy for Camelot. Once the fans heard about a new Golden Sun game, the fans undoubtedly flipped a lid, because I know I was pretty close. For a seven year hiatus on this series, was it really all that bad? The only bad parts of the game pale in comparison to the rest of it. Granted, in every game there are parts to work on, but for a seven year break, I'd say they hit the mark pretty freaking well.
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Offline aprilmarie

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« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2011, 11:13:05 PM »
I disagree. Not being rude or argumentative just being honest.

DD is WAY too easy. In GS and TLA there were no clues as to what to do, no insight glass to destroy any challenge there was to begin with. In the first two games, you figured it out, and if you didn't get what to do, you think a little and figure it out. You don't use a glyph book to tell you what to do, you use your head. I beat DD in four days, first go.

Also, at the end when the Tuaparang soldiers are the only 'monsters' in the random battle encounters, you get like 50 000 exp points for 2 of them. That way you can upgrade to level 99 pretty quickly. I'm still at level 68 in GS and I've had that file for three years, and occasionally go on it just to level up, and the highest exp points possible are like 1500. Another example of the lack of challenge in DD.

If you're going to have a game that creates challenge through puzzles and strategy, at least let the player be ABLE to strategize and conquer a challenge, instead of being consistently pointed in the right direction.

Offline IsaacIvan

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« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2011, 02:40:58 AM »
The Insight Glass was probably there to help make it easier for newbies to adjust to the usual difficulty of the puzzles. And the Glyph Book was only to give us Poetry-based puzzles. It served no real purpose other than that. And I did too, but I can't ever say that it was bad, in fact, I might even say it was good. But I never really used either of them, unless the game made me, as I found them to be only a waste of time/psynergy.

Well, that's for people that actually TRY to level up their party to level 99. I try to go against the bosses at the lowest level possible, but that's just me. The only 'lack of challenge' in Dark Dawn is when people get lazy and just grind to be completely overpowered. I always like to make something like Golden Sun even more challenging, like I'd give myself one challenge per dungeon. (Exempla Gratia: I'd only use weak attacks/Psynergy, physical attacks, no healing items, no buffing, 1 revive per person, Et Cetera. Sometimes I'd do even more than one...)

Well, Golden Sun does kind of challenge you by having you go through the entire world to find Djinn, better armor/weaponry, a tinge of backstory, and even for the main plot. It's been like that ever since TLA. And certain bosses you have to form a strategy against, otherwise, you're screwed. (coughcoughDullahancoughcough.)
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Offline Merc

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« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2011, 03:28:36 AM »
The only times I used the insight glass were either required or the goat room.

And another reason they added the tuaparang soldiers giving so much experience is because the Chaos Chimera is hard. Overall, it's an easy game, but the final boss often comes as a shock, so they gave players a chance to grind up to a level where they can defeat it. I have died many times against that boss in my first runthrough of the game.

What I meant about having the items affect the characters was that the monsters could drop items that raise a certain character's stats instead of having that on a weapon, because weapons are changed frequently.

And I don't think I've seen you around before, aprilmarie. Create an welcome topic, and introduce yourself. Don't be a stranger.

Offline IsaacIvan

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« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2011, 04:27:00 AM »
Well, you make very valid points on all of the current topics of debate, Mercury. (Don't try to debate me that they're topic of debate, or you'll just look like an idiot. >:D)

I didn't find the Chaos Chimera all that hard. I just needed to find his weakness, and he was down for the count. >:D But yeah, the game is pretty easy, all things considered.

Ah, like the 'Walking Tree' monster family having a chance to drop apples, or something? It'd have to be a really small chance, otherwise people would farm that. I guarantee you that I would. XD Or would it be like an equipable item? (Like say there's a monster called a 'Shaman', alright? When you kill him, there's a 4% chance that he'll drop an item known as 'Magic Charm' which increases you're Psynergy pool by... 5%. Something like that? If there is something like that, we should have the ability to upgrade accessories and armor too. :D)

Yeah, don't assume everyone here is like me. I just happen to be very debate-oriented. Sorry I didn't introduce myself/welcome you to the forum. I'm IsaacIvan, good ta make your acquaintance.
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Offline aprilmarie

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« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2011, 12:37:52 AM »
 :gssweatdrop: What's a welcome forum?

Just to put my opinion in also.. Chaos Chimera wasn't hard to me either. Intuition plays a big part in fighting a challenging monster/character (ie, knowing when to use cure/wish before needing it (for example, you have full health but you know [insert foe here] will use a very harmful attack this turn, so you use Pure Wish as mia's turn, because she goes after the foe (supposedly).) Sounds confusing but bottom line is; intuition helps a lot.

Back to the topic of the thread though, my opinion on the lack of challenges (compared to GS and TLA), too many characters and the too easy to level up thing, still stands and I hope that these don't follow suit in the next GS.

You have to admit, anybody will say it if they're being honest, DD is the easiest out of the 3. Yes? No? ... Yes.

( :gsfrown: So anyway what's a welcome forum?!?)

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« Last Edit: December 11, 2011, 06:49:06 AM by Sparkx »

Offline IsaacIvan

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« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2011, 03:13:58 AM »
It was probably just a spelling/grammar error. Don't let it bother you too much.

Intuition is basically what I mean by strategy. It comes naturally to others, but most some of us have to think ahead. It isn't really all that difficult fighting, depending on you level or experience with the game's combat system. I tend to learn really quickly when it comes to combat/puzzles, though. But I'll end it with a quote from Sun Tsu's The Art of War: "Know thine enemy and know thine self, and you need not fear the result of a hundred battles." (In this case, a lot more, but you get the idea...)

Well, certain parts of the game were easy, and others were challenging. And I don't really count Insight, because I forgot about it the moment I left the temple. XD

I actually tie it between GS and DD. They were both really easy, and TLA was the hardest. That's why I love it so much. <3
« Last Edit: December 17, 2011, 09:22:59 PM by IsaacIvan »
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Offline aprilmarie

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« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2011, 08:59:15 AM »
No doubt, I totally agree with you. TLA is the best of the three to me. I do love GS, but whenever I want to play it again and start a new file you have to do the whole Sol Sanctum thing and that seriously bores me >.<  . Way better to start a new file on TLA. Plus you get to ride a boat, nbd.

Hopefully GS4 will give us some more clues on Alex, as I would assume that he will be the final boss of the series. Although, he is opssibly Amiti's father and Rief's Uncle. But still.


Offline Merc

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« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2011, 12:56:20 PM »
I still enjoy playing through all the games, but I think TLA is my favorite as well. But one problem I have with the entire series is after your first playthrough, you have all the puzzles pretty much down. I would like to see some sort of extra challenge after beating the game, more than just one or two optional dungeons. Maybe they could have something similar to the Master Quest in Ocarina of Time.

There is no "possibly" about it. It was confirmed by a GS family tree that Camelot released that Amiti is Alex's son.

Offline aprilmarie

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« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2011, 08:00:28 PM »
That was predictable. That's pretty sweet though, because now I'm at a loss as to how the series will unfold when it comes to Alex. (God I love this game and the suspense.)


Also, just to put it out there, OoT is the best game ever.  :gsjoy: