TLW Golden Sun Forums

Golden Sun => Golden Sun: The Lost Age => Topic started by: Team Flare Zakk ( Agatio ) on June 14, 2013, 01:22:49 AM

Title: Was Alex Supposed to be Playable?
Post by: Team Flare Zakk ( Agatio ) on June 14, 2013, 01:22:49 AM
What is the mystery of Alex?

For those aren't aware there is a Beta Alex in the debug room and his portrait is in with the protagonists, why?

It looked kind of like this, except with portraits

 :isaac: :garet: :ivan: :mia:
 :felix: :jenna: :sheba: :alex:
 :alex:

 :venus_djinn: :mars_djinn: :jupiter_djinn: :mercury_djinn:
  :kraden: :saturos: :menardi:  :alex:
  :karst: :agatio:

The top is the playable characters and the bottom is the npcs, so why is there a Alex portrait in the playable characters section?

If Alex was supposed to be playable, why was it scrapped?
Title: Re: Was Alex Supposed to be Playable?
Post by: Merc on June 14, 2013, 01:38:25 AM
Hm… Interesting. I'd assume that, near the end of development, they decided that Alex's personality didn't really work with being a protagonist, no matter what way you swing it. Maybe they had some plan that Alex wouldn't join you in the final battle for whatever reason, instead choosing to run off to Mount Aleph? If this is true, then that would also mean that Piers was added at the last minute as well, which is odd because of how much of the Lemuria plot revolves around him. Maybe they were originally going to have Alex be a Lemurian?
Title: Re: Was Alex Supposed to be Playable?
Post by: Light on June 14, 2013, 01:50:29 AM
In the early stages, Camelot had a hard time choosing a 4th party member; Sheba, Felix, and Jenna were already decided on during the development of The first game

Since Alex was at the time, the other most well known Mercury Adept, he was the original choice

However, Camelot found that The Lost Age would be too easy since you already had a full party, and they still wanted to give the game the same feeling as the original game did with the players, the feeling of excitement that new people joined you

Piers was not a last minute edition, Alex was scrapped as a char within less than 6 months, Camelot went ahead and started to create a new character, originally he was of course gonna look like Link since the original Lemurian sprites resembled the Hylians (we would of had at least 1 elf character at the time)

The change of how the Lemurians looked came not too long after, since Camelot felt it was too cliche to add elves, thus they decided to make Piers and the other Lemurians resemble Mia and Alex, but with an "Islandy" feel
Title: Re: Was Alex Supposed to be Playable?
Post by: Team Flare Zakk ( Agatio ) on June 14, 2013, 02:14:36 AM
In the early stages, Camelot had a hard time choosing a 4th party member; Sheba, Felix, and Jenna were already decided on during the development of The first game

Since Alex was at the time, the other most well known Mercury Adept, he was the original choice

However, Camelot found that The Lost Age would be too easy since you already had a full party, and they still wanted to give the game the same feeling as the original game did with the players, the feeling of excitement that new people joined you

Piers was not a last minute edition, Alex was scrapped as a char within less than 6 months, Camelot went ahead and started to create a new character, originally he was of course gonna look like Link since the original Lemurian sprites resembled the Hylians (we would of had at least 1 elf character at the time)

The change of how the Lemurians looked came not too long after, since Camelot felt it was too cliche to add elves, thus they decided to make Piers and the other Lemurians resemble Mia and Alex, but with an "Islandy" feel

America, you pointed out quite a few interesting things here,

So the early Lemurians being elves, that could possibly explain the Link sprite found in the debug room and it might even be the original Piers before being scapped, right?

Though having Alex in the beginning wasn't a good idea didn't mean they had to scrap it completely, Alex could of temporarily went off on his own to find that boat like it was, then joined later, think about it.

They also could of done a optional joining where you can choose to have Alex instead of Piers around the time you get Piers.

They also could simply had stronger monsters to support the 4 character thing, I know when I play Lost Age the monsters are really weak, even with just Felix, Jenna and Sheba.
Title: Re: Was Alex Supposed to be Playable?
Post by: Light on June 14, 2013, 02:59:48 AM
In the early stages, Camelot had a hard time choosing a 4th party member; Sheba, Felix, and Jenna were already decided on during the development of The first game

Since Alex was at the time, the other most well known Mercury Adept, he was the original choice

However, Camelot found that The Lost Age would be too easy since you already had a full party, and they still wanted to give the game the same feeling as the original game did with the players, the feeling of excitement that new people joined you

Piers was not a last minute edition, Alex was scrapped as a char within less than 6 months, Camelot went ahead and started to create a new character, originally he was of course gonna look like Link since the original Lemurian sprites resembled the Hylians (we would of had at least 1 elf character at the time)

The change of how the Lemurians looked came not too long after, since Camelot felt it was too cliche to add elves, thus they decided to make Piers and the other Lemurians resemble Mia and Alex, but with an "Islandy" feel

America, you pointed out quite a few interesting things here,

So the early Lemurians being elves, that could possibly explain the Link sprite found in the debug room and it might even be the original Piers before being scapped, right?

Though having Alex in the beginning wasn't a good idea didn't mean they had to scrap it completely, Alex could of temporarily went off on his own to find that boat like it was, then joined later, think about it.

They also could of done a optional joining where you can choose to have Alex instead of Piers around the time you get Piers.

They also could simply had stronger monsters to support the 4 character thing, I know when I play Lost Age the monsters are really weak, even with just Felix, Jenna and Sheba.
Won't work, Golden Sun was only programmed to support up to 8 playable characters, to add Alex, would of required complete reprogramming

That sprite couldn't be Piers since it is positioned at an angle, player sprites have 8 positions, NPCs have 6, that sprite is an NPC
Title: Re: Was Alex Supposed to be Playable?
Post by: Rolina on June 14, 2013, 08:06:14 PM
He was, actually.  They changed it so that Piers became the eighth character instead, and made Alex a villain.
Title: Re: Was Alex Supposed to be Playable?
Post by: Nyran on June 14, 2013, 10:02:10 PM
http://kprs.laronmi.net/taow/miscellany/mystery/mystery.htm (http://kprs.laronmi.net/taow/miscellany/mystery/mystery.htm)

I believe that's what Agatio is talking about.
Title: Re: Was Alex Supposed to be Playable?
Post by: Ivan Strider on June 16, 2013, 12:02:43 PM
He was, actually.  They changed it so that Piers became the eighth character instead, and made Alex a villain.

too bad he wasn't a boss. Like most villains in video games are. but then again he's not much of a villain though (nor was he a hero.) in the end he was, but he never really showed what he truly intended to do. I never even guessed Alex was behind it all till the end.
Title: Re: Was Alex Supposed to be Playable?
Post by: Rolina on June 17, 2013, 01:29:20 AM
No, I think he's supposed to not be the boss of the game, but the boss of the current story arc.  Each game has a final boss, but what they're really doing is setting those as bosses of simply chapters in the book.  Alex, though, in TLA's development, was decided to be akin to Xehanort in KH.  Though, without fighting him directly.  I'm sure there's a better example of an arc villain that's not fought until the end of the arc, but I can't think of it at the moment.

The problem is, the arc might never actually see an end at this point.  DD's sales were... not good.
Title: Re: Was Alex Supposed to be Playable?
Post by: Star Magician on June 17, 2013, 06:35:00 AM
No, I think he's supposed to not be the boss of the game, but the boss of the current story arc.  Each game has a final boss, but what they're really doing is setting those as bosses of simply chapters in the book.  Alex, though, in TLA's development, was decided to be akin to Xehanort in KH.  Though, without fighting him directly.  I'm sure there's a better example of an arc villain that's not fought until the end of the arc, but I can't think of it at the moment.
I think another example is (spoiler) Wilhelm from Xenosaga. He's the grand manipulator, and therefore, the main villain, but you never fight him.
Title: Re: Was Alex Supposed to be Playable?
Post by: Ivan Strider on June 17, 2013, 07:40:14 AM
or Kyubey from Puella Magi Madoka Magica.

That little cutie was the mastermind of it all. Though it wasn't evil it was still responsible for everything that happened and it did it all to help the Universe. It destroyed people's lives just to keep the Universe alive. And yet they Never fight it.

Except Homura, which she killed one of its bodies to stop Madoka.
Title: Re: Was Alex Supposed to be Playable?
Post by: Rolina on June 17, 2013, 01:12:12 PM
Except Homura, which she killed one of its bodies to stop Madoka.
One?  What, did ya never get to episode 10?

I don't think those two really work, though... since again, they don't meet that requirement of fulfilling the role that Magus did.  Magus was actively trying to save the world, even though his methods were horribly flawed.  The heroes stopped him, but also ultimately succeeded in his goals anyways.
Title: Re: Was Alex Supposed to be Playable?
Post by: Ivan Strider on June 18, 2013, 05:09:25 PM
I did get to episode 10. The only part I saw with Kyubey actually dying was the one part when Homura shot it.

I think Homura would also somewhat fit. She was trying to save Madoka though, but also went about it the wrong way, soon becoming Madoka's enemy instead of her friend. But that's my opinion that may not be yours.
Title: Re: Was Alex Supposed to be Playable?
Post by: Rolina on June 18, 2013, 07:33:15 PM
And now you're ignoring episode 10 and 11...
Title: Re: Was Alex Supposed to be Playable?
Post by: Ivan Strider on June 18, 2013, 07:39:48 PM
Homura was Madoka's friend until that last timeline. in the end they became friends and Madoka became the goddess of the whole universe and rewrote the rules of the universe. Homura was the only one who remembered Madoka besides Madoka's brother. Homura was trying to save Madoka in the last timeline by preventing her from becoming a Magical Girl. All the retrying in hopes of saving Madoka just made the Magical Girl form of Madoka stronger. In the end Madoka had so much potential and Homura saved her in a different way than she had expected.

Anything I'm missing? I only saw her shoot Kyubey once.
Title: Re: Was Alex Supposed to be Playable?
Post by: Rolina on June 18, 2013, 10:32:46 PM
Kills him once in episode 8, yes... but several times in episode 10 - you even see her holding the corpse as she walks away during one of her warnings to Madoka.  He even mentions about how she should know by now how pointless it is to kill him - implying it's happened a lot.

Also, Madoka NEVER saw Homura as her enemy.  Sayaka did, but not Madoka - she was always trying to reach out to her, and was always concerned about her.  Hell, she left safety during the middle of a "hurricane" (the Walpurgis fight!) in order to help her!  How the hell is that what you do to an enemy?
Title: Re: Was Alex Supposed to be Playable?
Post by: Light on June 18, 2013, 10:48:07 PM
Getting way off topic hear
Title: Re: Was Alex Supposed to be Playable?
Post by: Rolina on June 18, 2013, 11:41:57 PM
Touche.

Anywho, what I stated still stands.  Both in terms of system, as well as what he appears to be built up as, it seems to me that Alex, though originally intended to become playable, has evolved into something different.  At this point, considering the mechanics of Golden Sun, the only way for him to really be playable anymore is to have a standalone game with much different mechanics, and with him as the sole PC.  The fact that he's absorbed both the power of the Golden Sun, as well as likely the power of at least one of the raw fundaments as well, means that in the context of traditional play he'd be certain to break all the rules, or make no sense if he didn't.
Title: Re: Was Alex Supposed to be Playable?
Post by: Ivan Strider on June 19, 2013, 02:25:33 AM
I always mess up what I try to say. I give up at explaining things because I'm horrible.

but I agree with you as Alex not going to be playable or supposed to be playable.
Title: Re: Was Alex Supposed to be Playable?
Post by: Team Flare Zakk ( Agatio ) on June 22, 2013, 11:23:06 PM
Why did they call the Lemurian that took Alex's place in this game, Piers?

I always rename him Aaron, his German name, which is the best default name he has, but look at what they named him.

Picard: after that bald guy from Star Trek, really?

Piers: what, Piers Morgan, that boring news guy from cnn? Lame.

Just saying his name should of just been Aaron.
Title: Re: Was Alex Supposed to be Playable?
Post by: Light on June 22, 2013, 11:58:47 PM
Why did they call the Lemurian that took Alex's place in this game, Piers?

I always rename him Aaron, his German name, which is the best default name he has, but look at what they named him.

Picard: after that bald guy from Star Trek, really?

Piers: what, Piers Morgan, that boring news guy from cnn? Lame.

Just saying his name should of just been Aaron.
Because Golden Sun was made in Japan, not Germany, the fact that you don't know this fathoms me

His original name is Picard, Piers is also accepted since its his English name

Names made in other languages are not accepted or approved by Camelot

As for how they get those names, the translation teams in each country think up some names that exist in those countries (Aaron is a common name, in fact, it's my Middle name)

BTW, I'm German (can't speak it though)
Title: Re: Was Alex Supposed to be Playable?
Post by: CHEESE4ALL on June 23, 2013, 12:00:55 AM
This is an interesting thread.  Playing the first two games, I never expected to play Alex.  To me he always seemed more important than he first was supposed to appear. I always knew he'd be behind something.   Which was proved true at the end of TLA.  After that I really believed we'd never get him because he would simply be too powerful.   I don't know how I'd feel about fighting him.  I think it would be interesting and he'd be nice and difficult, but  it might not be good for the story since he really never seems to tip either way for good or bad.  If we ever do get to fight him, I don't think we'll ever get to kill him.  Just be held off for a short time as part of his plan.

I like Piers name.  Why is that just me?
Title: Re: Was Alex Supposed to be Playable?
Post by: Scorpio on June 23, 2013, 01:26:58 AM
POW! POW! PICARD!!!!!!!!!!

Just kidding, I like the name "Piers".
Title: Re: Was Alex Supposed to be Playable?
Post by: Team Flare Zakk ( Agatio ) on June 23, 2013, 01:38:31 AM
I like the name Aaron better than both Piers and Picard.

Hail Germany for it has some of best Metal in the world!

RAMMSTEIN!
Title: Re: Was Alex Supposed to be Playable?
Post by: Light on June 23, 2013, 02:18:36 AM
POW! POW! PICARD!!!!!!!!!!
Now, you will die, just for that joke
Title: Re: Was Alex Supposed to be Playable?
Post by: Scorpio on June 23, 2013, 03:14:09 AM
What shall you do, False Scorpion? Rock Bottom me?
Title: Re: Was Alex Supposed to be Playable?
Post by: Light on June 23, 2013, 03:38:40 AM
What shall you do, False Scorpion? Rock Bottom me?
I will hack the forum
Make myself admin
Ban you
Erase the history of what I did
Continue what I do now
Title: Re: Was Alex Supposed to be Playable?
Post by: Scorpio on June 23, 2013, 04:31:22 AM
Then I will hunt you down. I will find you. I will destroy everything you hold dear. Never threaten a chessmaster.

We need to get back on topic before someone shoots the both of us with their olde-tmey dueling guns.
Title: Re: Was Alex Supposed to be Playable?
Post by: Star Magician on June 23, 2013, 07:59:30 AM
I like the name Aaron better than both Piers and Picard.

Hail Germany for it has some of best Metal in the world!

RAMMSTEIN!
Vanden Plas!

Also, bringing up the name Picard deserves one of these:
(http://www8.pcmag.com/media/images/322358-picard-facepalm.jpg)
Title: Re: Was Alex Supposed to be Playable?
Post by: Team Flare Zakk ( Agatio ) on June 24, 2013, 12:19:36 AM
I like the name Aaron better than both Piers and Picard.

Hail Germany for it has some of best Metal in the world!

RAMMSTEIN!
Vanden Plas!

Also, bringing up the name Picard deserves one of these:
(http://www8.pcmag.com/media/images/322358-picard-facepalm.jpg)

Yes Captain Picard facepalm ftw!