Topic: Was Alex Supposed to be Playable?  (Read 2980 times)

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Offline Jenna

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« on: June 14, 2013, 01:22:49 AM »
What is the mystery of Alex?

For those aren't aware there is a Beta Alex in the debug room and his portrait is in with the protagonists, why?

It looked kind of like this, except with portraits

 :isaac: :garet: :ivan: :mia:
 :felix: :jenna: :sheba: :alex:
 :alex:

 :venus_djinn: :mars_djinn: :jupiter_djinn: :mercury_djinn:
  :kraden: :saturos: :menardi:  :alex:
  :karst: :agatio:

The top is the playable characters and the bottom is the npcs, so why is there a Alex portrait in the playable characters section?

If Alex was supposed to be playable, why was it scrapped?

Offline Merc

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« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2013, 01:38:25 AM »
Hm… Interesting. I'd assume that, near the end of development, they decided that Alex's personality didn't really work with being a protagonist, no matter what way you swing it. Maybe they had some plan that Alex wouldn't join you in the final battle for whatever reason, instead choosing to run off to Mount Aleph? If this is true, then that would also mean that Piers was added at the last minute as well, which is odd because of how much of the Lemuria plot revolves around him. Maybe they were originally going to have Alex be a Lemurian?

Offline L

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« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2013, 01:50:29 AM »
In the early stages, Camelot had a hard time choosing a 4th party member; Sheba, Felix, and Jenna were already decided on during the development of The first game

Since Alex was at the time, the other most well known Mercury Adept, he was the original choice

However, Camelot found that The Lost Age would be too easy since you already had a full party, and they still wanted to give the game the same feeling as the original game did with the players, the feeling of excitement that new people joined you

Piers was not a last minute edition, Alex was scrapped as a char within less than 6 months, Camelot went ahead and started to create a new character, originally he was of course gonna look like Link since the original Lemurian sprites resembled the Hylians (we would of had at least 1 elf character at the time)

The change of how the Lemurians looked came not too long after, since Camelot felt it was too cliche to add elves, thus they decided to make Piers and the other Lemurians resemble Mia and Alex, but with an "Islandy" feel

Offline Jenna

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« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2013, 02:14:36 AM »
In the early stages, Camelot had a hard time choosing a 4th party member; Sheba, Felix, and Jenna were already decided on during the development of The first game

Since Alex was at the time, the other most well known Mercury Adept, he was the original choice

However, Camelot found that The Lost Age would be too easy since you already had a full party, and they still wanted to give the game the same feeling as the original game did with the players, the feeling of excitement that new people joined you

Piers was not a last minute edition, Alex was scrapped as a char within less than 6 months, Camelot went ahead and started to create a new character, originally he was of course gonna look like Link since the original Lemurian sprites resembled the Hylians (we would of had at least 1 elf character at the time)

The change of how the Lemurians looked came not too long after, since Camelot felt it was too cliche to add elves, thus they decided to make Piers and the other Lemurians resemble Mia and Alex, but with an "Islandy" feel

America, you pointed out quite a few interesting things here,

So the early Lemurians being elves, that could possibly explain the Link sprite found in the debug room and it might even be the original Piers before being scapped, right?

Though having Alex in the beginning wasn't a good idea didn't mean they had to scrap it completely, Alex could of temporarily went off on his own to find that boat like it was, then joined later, think about it.

They also could of done a optional joining where you can choose to have Alex instead of Piers around the time you get Piers.

They also could simply had stronger monsters to support the 4 character thing, I know when I play Lost Age the monsters are really weak, even with just Felix, Jenna and Sheba.

Offline L

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« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2013, 02:59:48 AM »
In the early stages, Camelot had a hard time choosing a 4th party member; Sheba, Felix, and Jenna were already decided on during the development of The first game

Since Alex was at the time, the other most well known Mercury Adept, he was the original choice

However, Camelot found that The Lost Age would be too easy since you already had a full party, and they still wanted to give the game the same feeling as the original game did with the players, the feeling of excitement that new people joined you

Piers was not a last minute edition, Alex was scrapped as a char within less than 6 months, Camelot went ahead and started to create a new character, originally he was of course gonna look like Link since the original Lemurian sprites resembled the Hylians (we would of had at least 1 elf character at the time)

The change of how the Lemurians looked came not too long after, since Camelot felt it was too cliche to add elves, thus they decided to make Piers and the other Lemurians resemble Mia and Alex, but with an "Islandy" feel

America, you pointed out quite a few interesting things here,

So the early Lemurians being elves, that could possibly explain the Link sprite found in the debug room and it might even be the original Piers before being scapped, right?

Though having Alex in the beginning wasn't a good idea didn't mean they had to scrap it completely, Alex could of temporarily went off on his own to find that boat like it was, then joined later, think about it.

They also could of done a optional joining where you can choose to have Alex instead of Piers around the time you get Piers.

They also could simply had stronger monsters to support the 4 character thing, I know when I play Lost Age the monsters are really weak, even with just Felix, Jenna and Sheba.
Won't work, Golden Sun was only programmed to support up to 8 playable characters, to add Alex, would of required complete reprogramming

That sprite couldn't be Piers since it is positioned at an angle, player sprites have 8 positions, NPCs have 6, that sprite is an NPC

Offline Rolina

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« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2013, 08:06:14 PM »
He was, actually.  They changed it so that Piers became the eighth character instead, and made Alex a villain.

Offline Nyran

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« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2013, 10:02:10 PM »
http://kprs.laronmi.net/taow/miscellany/mystery/mystery.htm

I believe that's what Agatio is talking about.

Offline Ivan Strider

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« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2013, 12:02:43 PM »
He was, actually.  They changed it so that Piers became the eighth character instead, and made Alex a villain.

too bad he wasn't a boss. Like most villains in video games are. but then again he's not much of a villain though (nor was he a hero.) in the end he was, but he never really showed what he truly intended to do. I never even guessed Alex was behind it all till the end.
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Offline Rolina

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« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2013, 01:29:20 AM »
No, I think he's supposed to not be the boss of the game, but the boss of the current story arc.  Each game has a final boss, but what they're really doing is setting those as bosses of simply chapters in the book.  Alex, though, in TLA's development, was decided to be akin to Xehanort in KH.  Though, without fighting him directly.  I'm sure there's a better example of an arc villain that's not fought until the end of the arc, but I can't think of it at the moment.

The problem is, the arc might never actually see an end at this point.  DD's sales were... not good.

Offline Star Magician

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« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2013, 06:35:00 AM »
No, I think he's supposed to not be the boss of the game, but the boss of the current story arc.  Each game has a final boss, but what they're really doing is setting those as bosses of simply chapters in the book.  Alex, though, in TLA's development, was decided to be akin to Xehanort in KH.  Though, without fighting him directly.  I'm sure there's a better example of an arc villain that's not fought until the end of the arc, but I can't think of it at the moment.
I think another example is (spoiler) Wilhelm from Xenosaga. He's the grand manipulator, and therefore, the main villain, but you never fight him.

prinny prinny prinny prinny prinny prinny prinny prinny dood

Offline Ivan Strider

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« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2013, 07:40:14 AM »
or Kyubey from Puella Magi Madoka Magica.

That little cutie was the mastermind of it all. Though it wasn't evil it was still responsible for everything that happened and it did it all to help the Universe. It destroyed people's lives just to keep the Universe alive. And yet they Never fight it.

Except Homura, which she killed one of its bodies to stop Madoka.
Yes. It's true. I'm attracted to Males. Now you can all rest easy now that I confirmed it. Now we can all get back to our merry little uneventful lives now that I spouted this pointless fact that I spouted.

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Offline Rolina

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« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2013, 01:12:12 PM »
Except Homura, which she killed one of its bodies to stop Madoka.
One?  What, did ya never get to episode 10?

I don't think those two really work, though... since again, they don't meet that requirement of fulfilling the role that Magus did.  Magus was actively trying to save the world, even though his methods were horribly flawed.  The heroes stopped him, but also ultimately succeeded in his goals anyways.

Offline Ivan Strider

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« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2013, 05:09:25 PM »
I did get to episode 10. The only part I saw with Kyubey actually dying was the one part when Homura shot it.

I think Homura would also somewhat fit. She was trying to save Madoka though, but also went about it the wrong way, soon becoming Madoka's enemy instead of her friend. But that's my opinion that may not be yours.
Yes. It's true. I'm attracted to Males. Now you can all rest easy now that I confirmed it. Now we can all get back to our merry little uneventful lives now that I spouted this pointless fact that I spouted.

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Offline Rolina

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« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2013, 07:33:15 PM »
And now you're ignoring episode 10 and 11...

Offline Ivan Strider

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« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2013, 07:39:48 PM »
Homura was Madoka's friend until that last timeline. in the end they became friends and Madoka became the goddess of the whole universe and rewrote the rules of the universe. Homura was the only one who remembered Madoka besides Madoka's brother. Homura was trying to save Madoka in the last timeline by preventing her from becoming a Magical Girl. All the retrying in hopes of saving Madoka just made the Magical Girl form of Madoka stronger. In the end Madoka had so much potential and Homura saved her in a different way than she had expected.

Anything I'm missing? I only saw her shoot Kyubey once.
Yes. It's true. I'm attracted to Males. Now you can all rest easy now that I confirmed it. Now we can all get back to our merry little uneventful lives now that I spouted this pointless fact that I spouted.

Have a GREAT day~

*rolls in happiness*